Madrid, Mould and Migration

Joining me today is Jaime, another unsuspecting member from our chess club, who politely agreed to this.

Or was he cornered? We’ll never know.

What started as a weekly recreation for me has become a welcome space of community and conversations.

Can you begin by telling me where in Spain are you from?

I’m from Madrid, from a small city very close to Madrid, around 13 km from there. Normally, people from that region just say they’re from Madrid when asked.

And how many years has it been? When did you move to London?

I lived in a city close to my hometown for most of my life until I was 28, I think. I also lived in Barcelona for one year. So, seven years ago, I decided to move to the UK. At the time, I didn’t want to move to London because I didn’t want to live in another big city after Madrid. So, I decided to move to Bournemouth, a city in southern England, and I lived there for five years. I only moved to London a couple of years ago.

What motivated you to move to London? Was it work, adventure or something else?

The main reason for coming to the UK was the language. I wanted to learn and practise English more because it would be good for my profession and my life, in general. I wanted to watch TV in its original version. I wanted to interact with people from everywhere around the world. That was the main motivation. And after living in Bournemouth for five years, I got slightly tired of it. I found the city a little bit boring, so I started looking for a job in London. At the time, it was still Covid, so I got the job first and then moved to London after a few months. Bournemouth is a small city. Even though it has an airport, there are not many destinations. I wanted to have more leisure options, more job opportunities, and I wanted to have an airport close by so that I could travel to Madrid easily.

Once you had moved here, did you find any cultural differences or things that were surprising or challenging when compared to Madrid or even Bournemouth?

I knew that London was a big city, and I had visited before moving, but at the beginning, the first few months that I was working in London, it was remote working most of the time, so I didn’t have to commute. It was a bit uncomfortable for me to have plans in the city centre. The thing is that in Bournemouth, everything is quite close by, so in 5-10-15 or 20 minutes, I could go everywhere. And when I came to London and started making plans, I realised that everything was really far, and though the public transport is good, it isn’t very efficient sometimes. There are many problems, and I was living in Twickenham in the beginning, and even though they have the Overground, the District Line and the train, everything was far from Twickenham. Even though I was living in London, I realised that having a social life wasn’t easy, because everything was far from where I was living. If you want to go to some places, it takes too long. Also, the price of public transport here is not cheap. It’s affordable but not cheap. So, I think the main disadvantage in London for me is the public transport which is expensive and not as good as I’d expect for a city like London. The second one that is more important for me is the price of renting a room. It’s crazy.

Is it much higher than what it was in Spain? It would be much more than any other area in the UK, I think.

Yeah, it was much higher than in Bournemouth, probably double the price (oh wow), or close to double. And in Spain, I know that at the moment, in cities like Madrid and Barcelona, it’s expensive too.

Also, especially I think now, with companies like Airbnb, many landlords prefer to rent out to tourists, and why many residents are protesting.

Yeah, Madrid and Barcelona today, their rents are quite expensive, not just because of Tourism, though that’s one of the reasons. Many companies are buying properties there, not just for Airbnb, but for renting the houses and these are not just Spanish companies but from all over the world. I think that, for 10 years now, many hedge funds and international companies are investing in properties in Spain. It’s also a very popular destination for international tourists. So yes, it’s really expensive, and I read the other day that the percentage of salary that people are spending on renting a house in London is between 40% and 60%. In Spain, in cities like Madrid and Barcelona, I would say it is probably similar.

Translation - Your Airbnb used to be my home. Source: BBC

Since you are working here, how would you compare the work culture of the two cities, London and Madrid? You said the renting patterns are similar. Are there also differences in work culture?

In terms of the work market, I have to say I prefer the UK much more than Spain. There are several reasons, but the main one is that normally the salaries are higher in the UK. It depends a lot on the field in which you are working. In some of them, the differences are huge. In my field, it’s not that big. It’s around 30% higher in London than in Spain (that’s still a lot).

What field are you in?

I work in logistics, in customs. In Spain, the salary would be lower. Also, the rent would be lower. So, I would be in a similar situation to the one I am here. I would have less money, but I would also spend less money. Here, I spend more. I’m paying almost £1000 renting a room, sharing the house with 2 more people, a 3BHK with 2 bathrooms and a living room. And in my previous place of work, other than the salary thing I mentioned, something that makes a huge difference are the working hours. The working hours here, according to the contract, are more or less the same, like 37.5 or 40 hours per week. But in Spain, in most of the companies that I used to work in, and I know it’s also the case in many other companies; you had to work one hour or more extra per day for free.

And that’s not the case in the UK?

It’s not, in my experience, at least. I know it feels like that in consulting companies, that people are working more hours, but not in my field, in a non-managerial position.

Even in Banking, you don’t really stick to the hours mentioned on paper. It sort of goes beyond.

But in Spain they take this quite seriously. You have to work the hours that they expect you to work. Here, in companies that I’ve been working for in my position, the extra hours expectation is not there. Maybe in another position in a company if you are a manager or something like that, you probably will have to work more hours but not in my position. Another big difference, from my point of view is the workload that I had, and the one that I used to have in Spain.

Which one is more?

Here, it is 30-40% less than in Spain, at least in my field and my previous experiences (not in my current company). I know other people that I’ve met from Spain, that have been working in both countries, they say it’s similar in their fields. In the Big 4, I know that it’s crazy here and it’s crazy in Spain, but in general, all the companies that I have been working for in the UK, the workload was much lower than the one in Spain, and that’s a huge difference.

That sounds like a win-win.

No, something that’s surprising for me is that here, in some companies, people don’t take their jobs very seriously. In terms of like, I’m not going to say that they are lazy, but in Spain normally if you are not a proactive person and you are not always willing to do more work, it is very likely that at some point they are going to make you redundant. But here, if your manager asks you to do one thing, and you do that thing in one hour, and you have the rest of the day free, and you don’t do anything, nobody is going to tell you anything. But in Spain, if you are free for more than 2 minutes, you have to move on to the next job. It’s crazy but it’s also good. You have a good balance between work and life and personal life.

I think I can compare it to the Indian work culture. Even there, you are expected to keep on doing more than your official role requirement. Ok, so in terms of work, it seems like it’s relatively easier here. But are there specific challenges that you have faced here that you did not expect and how did you deal with them?

That’s something that we spoke about, the housing situation. For my Spanish brain, landlords in London, I don’t know how to explain, not in a good way, in terms of like if in Spain you pay a lot of money for a place to live, that place will be in good condition. It will not have mould. Here, even though they are expensive, the condition is not good. So, for me, that part is unfair and is something that can be challenging sometimes. Because you know, even if you don’t have the resources to go, I mean you can go the council, you can fight them, but you are not going to get anything, I think. I have never gone that far but the places I’ve been living in, in London, I’ve got mould problems and the landlords in both places would say it’s condensation, but it wasn’t condensation. Houses are really old, insulation is really bad, and they didn’t want to spend money. And they know that if you want to leave, they are going to get someone else. So they don’t care about the maintenance of their houses. I mean I’m sure there are exceptions but in general, the houses that I’ve seen and that I’ve been living in are not good.

Also, because there’s a lot of demand, they think if you go, someone else will replace you.

Yes, immediately.

You said language was one of your reasons for moving here, that you wanted to learn English and have a more global society. How was your experience there? Did you find it easy to learn the language? Or did you think of it as a barrier? And did your English improve as planned?

I’m still learning and it is not an easy process. I could go further in that sense but for Spanish speakers, English is really difficult. And, yeah during that process of learning, I’ve been trying to do language exchanges, meeting friends and doing meetups or any other kinds of events. Meeting UK people is not easy, as in I can meet many people but being friends with them is not that easy. I know that when I came here, I was already in my 30s, even in Spain, it’s not that easy to make friends in your 30s, but it’s been a really nice process and adventure for me. And I’m still learning and doing language classes, language exchanges, watching TV series and radio and I know that is a process and I’m spending the time on it, and at some point, I’ll get better.

I think your English is already pretty good. I never thought that you are learning it separately and that it is a challenge for you to learn.

I mean I know that I can communicate but I know I make several mistakes and sometimes I know that some people struggle to understand me, but it’s ok. I’m aware of those things and I’m working on them. It’s not that I’m trying to sound like a British person or have a British accent, that’s not my goal… (is it more to communicate effectively?) yes, so that people can understand me and I can understand them, that’s more than enough.

And we were talking about making friends with people who are in London, about going for meetup groups. So my next question is, how did you find building a community or social network here? Did you connect with other Spaniards, or did you integrate with a broader mix of people?

Meeting with Spaniards is really easy for me, there are many in London. I don’t know the exact numbers, but you bump into them everywhere. It’s easy to have conversations with them and make friends with them. But I also try to have international friends. It’s not that I’m not going to have Spanish friends, because I know they are going to be there and it’s good to have friends that are from the same nationality because you share many things with them, and sometimes it’s good to spend time with them. I’m always trying to increase my circle of friends, and if they are international friends, I like it even more.

Is it through online apps?

Not at the moment, because of my back situation. Maybe, a little bit. I mean I was not in the mood for dating or anything but at the beginning of moving to London, I have to say I found the dating apps in Bournemouth and London completely different. Here it is much easier to have a date. Luckily platforms like Bumble also have the option to make friends. I used that too and I’ve met some people with that option. So yes, every platform that is available to meet people, I think I’ve used them.

I think that’s one of the main challenges of London. There are so many people who come from different places on their own, and it can be an isolating city.

Yeah, I mean, sometimes, I think even though I’ve been here for 2 years and a little bit, I know a lot of people and I have several friends. But it’s true, I think sometimes it’s difficult to build new relationships, probably it’s also myself, because sometimes during the week I don’t fancy to do activities. During the weekend, yes I have the time, but sometimes when you are tired, I’d want to do it later or another day or whatever. But yeah, I know that if I put more effort, I can meet more people. But sometimes I don’t have the energy or the willingness to meet more people.

Do you think it helps if you are house sharing, because you have the company of friends there?

Yeah, for me it’s really important, my current house situation, because I really get along with both of my flatmates (that helps a lot), and luckily for me, the relationship that I used to have with my previous flatmates was also really good, not with all of them, because it’s impossible to have the same connection with everyone, but I’m still in contact with two of my previous flatmates. At the moment, I get along with my current two flatmates. Occasionally, we do plans together, so yes, it’s certainly an important thing for me.

Do you ever feel homesick? How do you stay connected to your family and culture in Spain?

I’ve never been homesick I have to say because I don’t feel I’ve ended up far away from Spain. I know it’s not the same as you guys, where home is far away. Also, because I’m a little bit not lonely, I mean I am an only child, so I’ve always been a little bit like I’m able to live by myself and I don’t need to be in contact with people. Also, whenever I need to be in contact with my family or my friends in Spain, I can call them and whenever I go to Spain, about 3 to 4 times a year, meet them. It’s not difficult for me to go to Spain. Even with back problems, one day I decided to go to Spain and the next week I was in Spain. The flights are more expensive than they used to be a few years ago but they are still affordable.

I think the analogy I can think of for a European living in London, is travelling between two cities in India, say working in Bombay and then flying home to Delhi. Because I think that’s how close Spain is for you.

I mean it’s true that occasionally I can meet all the staff from Spain, something that I love in Spain is going out, not partying or anything like that, but to go to a pub and have food in a pub and it’s very affordable. Here normally, it’s not that, I mean I can be a little bit stingy at times, but it’s because of my mentality because if like, I’m going to go to a restaurant, I’m going to spend 40-50-60 pounds, probably I’m not even going to be full, and the food is not that good. I mean in Spain normally, in a normal bar in the street, you spend I don’t know, like 20 pounds, and you get a few tapas and things, and you are going to be full and you can drink and eat for 20 pounds. I mean it’s something that is quite easy to do in Spain and here it is not. It is something that I miss from Spain.

Is there any Spanish tradition that you maintain here?

The thing is, I know that Spain and England are different, that we are different countries, but in many ways we are quite similar, in lifestyle and things. I mean sometimes I’ve been here in Christmas by myself, or on New Year’s Eve. I mean I can’t think of any traditions. Something I miss are the mountains, valleys and rivers. Here, everything is very similar. Except for places like Lake District, I’ve been told, but I haven’t been there yet.

Lake District - UNESCO World Heritage Centre

What about a tradition here which you’ve come to appreciate?

Not a London thing, but a British thing that I appreciate is the thing about work. I feel there is life, balance in the UK much more than in Spain. I remember here in my previous work, I was finishing at quarter past five, and if you kept working after that, they didn’t like it. In Spain, it was completely the opposite. You had to stay.

Is there any cultural aspect that you find strange?

Something that for me is strange might sound silly but occasionally, mostly during winter, I see a few girls that are wearing almost nothing, and here the weather is not hot. I think it’s something that is surprising because it’s like 6-7-8 degrees and you are wearing a mini skirt (I’ve stopped being surprised by that because sometimes I also think that, say if you are a regular jogger or runner, then your body has adapted to the temperature). Also, for me it was quite surprising that my managers in several companies, got drunk every single weekend and they were proud of it. In Spain, a manager is never going to speak about drinking, unless you are his friend. If someone is reporting to you, you don’t say oh on Saturday I got completely drunk, and my mates had to take me home. Here I have seen that situation with several managers.

When you think of living here, do you plan to stay long-term, or do you think of returning to Spain? What factors would influence your decision?

I don’t have a long-term plan. If you ask me whether I’m going to stay here in 3 years’ time, for sure I am, but in 10 years? I don’t know. It depends on how my work goes, how my personal life goes, if I meet someone who is from here or if something is happening in Spain with my family. Luckily, my parents have good health (touch wood) at the moment, but yeah not very keen now on going back to Spain, but I know that that is a door that is always open, because I love my country. I love many things about my country. I know that if I’m going to move back to Spain, I’m going to move back to a city close to the sea, not to Madrid. But it’s something that is not going to happen in the next few years, and it’s going to depend on work, life, health, and these kinds of things.

My last question to you, do you think your identity has changed since moving here?

Yeah, the UK has been my first international experience of living abroad, apart from Spain. So probably before coming here, my mind wasn’t that open, not that I had a closed mind, I consider myself as someone who is quite open, but when you are living here, your mind is even wider. I understand people that are moving abroad now, because when I was living in Spain and there were many people from other countries in Spain, I used to get along with them and never judge them, but now, I understand them much more. And when I’m in Spain now, if I bump into someone who is not from Spain, and he’s telling me the situation, that I’m from Romania, or Colombia or whatever, I bond more with that person because I’m in a similar situation in a different country. I can understand when they feel homesick, even though I’m not someone who usually feels homesick, but I understand them and yeah, I feel much more integrated into their world.

Yeah, I think that happens when you interact with different people. One of the reasons I included this question was because a lot of people say that when they move from one country to another, they suddenly feel that they don’t belong to either country, they feel like a bit of an outsider. I haven’t had that experience yet, because it has just been 2 years for me here but if I go home, I feel very much at home.

Yes, I have heard about it. There is even a Spanish documentary on it, but I don’t feel like an outsider either. It’s true that when I go back to Spain, my friends are all, most of them, parents. They have families and I can feel that probably, I’m not as close to the circle as I used to be. They are still my friends but I’m not part of their daily lives anymore. Probably if I was living in Spain, it would be similar, because some of them are parents to one or two kids, some of them have moved out of the city. They have a different life now, so I won’t be going out with them for sure because I know they are at a different life-stage. Even if I was in Spain, I know that I would have had to maybe find new friends. I love my country. I am still Spanish, and I’ll feel like that forever. I’m proud of it.

Thank you so much Jaime, for your time and candid answers.